gscx

i dont really use my clutch when im upshifting, your taking load of the bikes transmission so it doesnt do much damage. but if your downshift you really need to use the clutch because your putting more pressure on the clutch and gears when you do this. i only downshift without the clutch when im in the air

tigmaster

ok, so everyone seems to be a little sketchy on transmissions and how they work and how shifting gears works. ok, first we will deal with automotive/semi truck transmissions. these transmissions feature heavy gears that do not change speeds as quick as the little ones in your dirt bike. due to this, if you had the same setup in your car as in your bike you would grind gears every shift. an automotive tranny is gonna have the magic thing, a synchronizer. theses synchros as they are commonly called have one job, to slowly pre-engage the gear sets causing them to match speeds. therefore as you push your car into gear the synchro first accelerates the gears to match speeds. this may seem like the best thing ever, but synchros can wear out as well because they rely on friction to slowly accelerate the gear clusters. synchros then can be used to shift without the clutch because they slowly accelerate the gears allowing the gears to engage and not cause wear to the dog teeth. shifting without the clutch does cause extended wear on the synchros but some are designed to last a fair amount of time. however dont go trying this on your car because you will wear synchros out istantly. semi trucks use this technique because if they were to press in the clutch they would loose so much momentum they would barely ever be able to make it up. therefore they match rpm's fairly closely and rely on the synchros to do the rest. i have talked to many truckers though who have their synchros replaced about every 8 months so it does cause wear. now with this discussion of synchros, some of you may be asking why do i still occasionally grind gears with these synchros present. this is normal because the synchro cant accelerate the gear as fast as you put it in gear so the actual dog teeth will grind, the other cause is worn synchros. also, if you do not believe me about the synchros and the weights of your car gear sets, reverse is unsynchronized...... ever notice you are rolling forward and push the clutch in and try to shift into reverse and the gears grind. this is because the gear can be accelerated quick enough to match without a synchro and just grind until they match speeds. one more thing to know about a cars transmission is the fact that it is not technically a dog tooth shifter setup, it actually features splines on the inside of the gears and on the shaft.... this means many more possibilities of engagement. basically more chances for the splines to catch enough you can push it into gear..... now for a dirt bike transmission. this description also covers motorcycles and all gear shift atv's and even most boats use this between R-N-F. these transmissions are unsynchronized because they rely on the low weight of the gears. they don't have to worry about such massive gears, it is much easier to change the speed of these gears. basically they rely on that the moment you pull in the clutch, the low rotational mass will be slowed down almost instantly just by the friction of the oil on the gear. and when i say friction i use it in a relative sense. however, people seem to think it is alright to shift without the clutch. this is not alright. you may be able to do this 100 times, you may be able to do it 100000 times before you notice a single thing. also, it does not matter if you are up-shifting or down-shifting, IT IS THE SAME AMOUNT OF LOAD, one is just noticed more. when you shift up, the rpm's of the engine are forced to drop super quick even if you are not on the gas and in contradiction to your beliefs, up-shifting will actually cause more torque to be placed on the crankshaft of the engine. i really dont want to go into this advanced discussion in this but if you really wanted to know, call me otherwise i am not explaining it because it would take way too long, so i hope you will trust me on this. anyways, what begins to happen if you are even off by 1rpm is the dog teeth(dogs is the common name) will grind. this happens either with the clutch in or out but with the clutch pulled in you only have to accelerate the mass of the gears but when you shift without the clutch everything has to be accelerated. this means instead of that 50gram gear, you are now accelerating the entire first half of your transmission, you entire clutch assembly and countershaft, your crankshaft, any valvetrain components and you are even fighting the compression of the piston. this is a huge amount of mass in comparison to just a gear. what begins to happen when you dont use the clutch is that the dog teeth which are normally sharp and flat on the edges will begin to get rounded over from slipping past each other while they are trying to change the speed. once these begin to round your bike will actually pop out of gear. (happens a lot in reverse on cars, people actually will have to hold it in reverse while backing up). so with the transmission setup, shifting with the clutch only prolongs this wear almost indefinitely but does not eliminate. however it would take billions of shifts to even begin to do anything.

well i hope this clears up a few things and gives new cool knowledge to everyone. this is why i am here, to explain in depth almost any topic you would like. any questions about this process, just let me know.

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Th3-di3ing-br33d

nice explaination tig. just use the clutch its really not that hard lol

tigmaster

thanks, what he said, just use the clutch. you should have no reason not to. if you cant pull in your clutch then get a smaller bike or the hand squeeze workout thing.

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wr250f95

I can pull it in, problem is I dont always have time too.

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"LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING'...HOLY S**T... WHAT A RIDE!"

this, is why I ride.

tigmaster

i used to think that but somehow i make time and there has never been a time where something when wrong that could be contributed to using the clutch. however, even some pros choose to neglect the clutch but i personally dont have the money to replace my dogs every 10 rides.

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gscx

it wont mess up your dogs that much, iit would take years to start messing them up if you dont use the clutch, and by that time it would be time to get a new bike anyway

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2004 YZ-125 - PC exhaust, Blue applied triple tree, blue turner OV bars, ASV levers, Sunline sprocket and gold chain, FC springs, white plastic .
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turtlemann14

na the dogs in my bike are pretty rounded.. only from about 2 weeks of riding dummy that had it before me decided that a clutch cable was to expensive

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Honda269

hows virginia liike turtleman? how many tracks are there in that state? i might be moving there from florida

turtlemann14

.... West Virginia .....
track as in pro or mx track idk... i mostly trail riding lots of trails but some of the best riding areas are being bought... which really sucks for Virginia idk

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